Register | Log in
 
Electric-RC-Helicopter.com's Homepage
AlbumAlbum  | FAQ | Search | Memberlist
 

Align 450 Pro build


Custom Search
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Electric Rc Helicopter Forum Index -> Electric RC Helicopters General Discussion Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Advertisements


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:59 pm
PostPost subject: Align 450 Pro build
Reply with quote

I picked up an Align Trex 450 Pro bare frame a while back and have been amassing parts for some time thinking building one would help me understand them better.
All of the parts are Align with the exception of the servos and a Flysky receiver. My problem is the manual says nothing about a good accessible location for the receiver as well as the best route for the wires.
Does anyone have a picture they could share with me to give me some idea of the best way to go?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:59 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Mark, location of the receiver will depend to some extent on the length of the servo leads and depending on the pattern of side frames.

Here's a of videos of a 450 pro built from Hrizon RC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npq8D3RZeZM

Note where the ESC and receive are located, on the outside of the main frame.
You may need to jury rig the positions of the ESC and receiver, then with the battery, canopy, and blades on check the CoG.




Burgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:31 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Excellent! I saw another video on a Pro DFC Flybarless and mounted my esc under the battery plate. The wiring in that video ran to a 3Gx so it really was no good for this build. This video gives me a great way to mount the receiver and run my wiring.
Thanks Burgess!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:40 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

I ordered the Assan GA-250 gyro today and yesterday my new Align swashplate and rotor head assembly showed up. Next in the budget will be to get better servos I think. I'm not sure the Corona ones I have are right for this build. Maybe a set of Align 410's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:42 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Being pragmatic, when learning to fly a six channel heli it's not a quest of if you'll crash but how often. So, choosing servos is a matter of good functionality and cost.

Generally speaking, digital servos respond faster and have a finer resolution than analogue servos. Metal gear-trains are generally prone to lost motion to some extent, whereas plastic/nylon gear-trains less so.

Here's a cost effective digital servo from banggood.com
Emax ES09D plastic gear train no lost motion
Ball raced
digital
4.8v-6.0v
Torque 2.2, 2.5kg
Speed 0.11, 0.9s/60degree
These have been specially designed for use as swashplate servos on the 450ESV2, and they are ‘programable' too.

Emax Servo Program Card -see this link
http://www.banggood.com/buy/Emax-servo.html




BUrgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:48 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Wow! I'd have never guessed these would be that good or that functional. I'll get a set and try them out. Should I be looking at a ES9256 digital tail servo?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:51 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

I have 2 jr ds287mghv and 1 jr ds287mg that are new and came with the bare frame I bought. I know I should use all the same servos on my cyclic. Can you tell me If buying 1 more 287mghv and using the 287mg for a tail servo would be OK? The only difference I can see in them is the voltage range ( the mghv is 6.0 - 7.4 and the mg is 4.8 - 6.0) figured I'd make use of the servos I have on hand. Or do I just shelve them and wait until I become a better pilot and then use them so as not to tear up an expensive servo? God this stuff is complicated to someone who doesn't know any better.
I'm not even going to power this bird up until I become experienced on the Hausler and have converted it to the Dx6i transmitter. I have the receiver coming for it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:12 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Yes use the JR servos...providing they have the right servo arms needed.

See spektrumrc.com for another DS287MGHV HV Digital Ultra Speed Sub-Micro $19.99.

However, can you post a photo of the servo arm set that comes with these JR servos.

Also, bear in mind that the BEC output voltage range for the Align RCE-BL35P HES35P01 35A ESC is 5.0v~6.0 volts. So they will be operating less than maximum.

Use the DS287MG for the rudder servo.

The speed and stall torque of the ds287mghv and the ds287mg are different, so not wise to mix them.



Burgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:59 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Understood about the mixing of servos. Here is a picture you ask for. I went to the Horizon Hobby web sight and found a multi pack of servo arms for these servos.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/super-strength-long-servo-arm%3A-jr-dub671

and

http://www.horizonhobby.com/servo-arm-assortment-a208-a212-jrpa218


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:00 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Before I get too far into this assembly. Can you give me some pros and cons as to all the talk of:
Belt drive vs. shaft drive
Flybar vs. FBL
Plastic replacement parts vs. metal/carbon parts

I can see where someone can go in one direction and then head in another quite easily without good info.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:22 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Markl...can I turn that around and ask what have got for this build so far?



Burgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:29 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Well. The guy I bought the frame from recommended building an Align dfc Pro Flybarless. Sooooooo. I bought swash plate, rotor assembly and a 3GX Mrs, Torque tube drive, ect, ect.
Me. I hadn't been able to get the Hausler to fly, so I figure "Better learn to walk before you try to run"
So here is what I have in the shop.
I can build with just about all the parts I've amassed from "Very Knowledgeable People"
1 Complete Align Trex 450 DFC Pro FLB.
1 almost complete Align 450 Pro with Flybar
And probably 2 Hausler SV's though I am running low on spare parts since I was finally able to get it in the air with your help and have had a few less than perfect flights.
Since joining this forum and working with you, I have no intentions of powering anything other than the Hausler and my simulator up probably this year the way things are going.
If I've learned anything lately it's that I know nothing about this sport. However, I do intend to master it with the help of ]GOOD PEOPLE LIKE YOU!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:35 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Enough to build a small fleet...Way to go Mark!


450 Pro DFC spec:
Align DFC main rotor head inc Swashplate,
Torque tube drive assembly
3GX MRS combined S-FHSS 2.4Ghz receiver and FBL system
Main Blades ?
Servos
Cyclic ?
Rudder ?
Motor ?
ESC ?


450 Pro Flybared Spec:
Main rotor head flybared assembly
Tail Drive Assembly [do you have a belt drive assembly]?
2.4Ghz receiver ?
Main Blades ?
Servos
Cyclic ?
Rudder ?
Gyro Assan GA250
Motor Align RCM-BL450M 3500kv
ESC Align 35A

Are the JR servos intended for this 450 Pro flybared build?

JR servo considerations:
#1 The large 4-armed horn the pack supplied with DS287MGHV, will it accommodate a link-ball at the needed distance out for the link rod to be vertical from the swashplate, three arms need to be trimmed off?

#2 Those JR servo horn sets don't include three arms of the same length, which is surprising considering the price per set. The best option price-wise are the two double-ended arm packs at $1.75 each, two packs trim-off one end from three horns.

#3 how many Sub-trim clicks are needed in order for the servo to react?

Plastic and metal components:
Plastic components are fine during the learning period, they weigh less, cost less and work well; in a collision, plastic control arms will either flex or snap, metal one will bend and remain distorted.

The Hauslers SV is a clone T-rex450SEV2, so hobbyking HK-450 components will fit. So too components for the main rotor and tail rotor and tail gearbox for the Storm 340, see helipal.com. Don't be put-off by the designation of 340, it is a 450 and the 340 plastic components will fit and work just fine their doing real low prices just now.

Main frames: Alloy, glass fibre, carbon fibre: high gloss black CF look great silver even better but becoming hard to find.
Tarot parts will also fit, they're good quality too.
Hobbyking 450 main rotor heads are good and reasonably price.
I've tried their very low cost fast digital servos for cyclic usage, easy for setting-up, slight lost motion in the geartrain.

Washout and Flybar control arms: any 450SEV2 metal or plastic arms will fit, best to swop-out the bush bearings for 2x5x2.5mm radial ball-raced bearings (need spacer shim washer between inner races) in the plastic arms though.
Flybar control arms the short end is off-set downwards on the 450SEV2 arms whereas the Pro and Sports aren't but they can still be used, just need to fit the appropriate top ‘A' links.

Speaking of links, Align do sets of one-piece ‘A'&‘B' links and sets of turnbuckles for the long pitch links these provide infinite adjustment resolution. Align link-eyes and link-balls are ‘slop' free.

For now -during learning curve- use metal tail booms and belted tail drive probably best.





Burgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:41 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

For the 450 Pro DFC I have all Align parts. 410 servos for the cyclic and a 425 for the tail. The tail is shaft drive with 3 torque bearings installed ( I read where with only 1 bearing it was washing out the inside of the tail boom due to flexing) and a new tail rotor assembly. The same esc as the pro build but the motor is the 450 RCM-BL450MX 3400kv with a spiral 12 tooth gear and a 121 tooth slant thread drive gear. I have mounted the bearing blocks and servos. The 3gx and have a new spm9645 dsmx remote receiver(not mounted yet) along with the tail drive box to 1 side of the frame. It's parked waiting on me to gain some experience.
For the Pro build I was going to originally go flybarless with the 3gx mrs but decided to go with the flybar setup to find out if there was something I've missed on the Hausler frame or something that is making it fly crazy.(The initial power up in mode 1 was wide open when I flipped the throttle hold switch with me holding it in my hand and it bouncing off the ceiling and then into the floor.) The rotor head assembly is a used Align from a Pro and I checked the linkages and feathering shaft and all appears to be good. Do you recommend replacing all the feathering shaft bearings as a precaution? The tail drive is belt with a used Align tail rotor assembly. I started to assemble 1 side but am holing off waiting on the servos you recommended. I have a spare flysky receiver but just purchased the ar6200 receiver we talked about and I'm thinking of using it on the Hausler and getting used the Dx6i transmitter in the field (I use it on the simulator now).
My thinking on all this is:
Get proficient at flying a flybar system first with the Hausler.
Move to the 450 Pro flybar and become proficient with it.
Move on to the Pro DFC FLB.
I realize this will probably take months to accomplish but now that I have a bird that will fly I'm in no hurry to damage more than 1 heli until I complete my training. Good plan?
As for main blades. Recommendations? I've tried many different makes and most were cf though I do have 2 sets of the Align 325 Fiber and I have the first set on the Hausler now. All blades were balanced before usage though I must admit that when I break 1 I may as well throw the other out due to symmetry, exact length, or weight matching up to another blade. The damage is typically a crack or big chip on the leading edge.
Let me know what you think. And Thanks
EDIT.....
I misspoke on the Pro DFC build in the previous thread. I have a 3GX mounted on it. Not the 3GXmrs. That one I bought for the Pro build before I decided to go with the flybar rotor assembly and I'm still researching on which is the better choice to use.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marks73
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 86
Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:00 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Mentally I have got to walk away from the Hausler for a while. I've decided to get the Align 450 Flybarred Pro in the air.
I've completed the entire rotor head assembly complete with swash plate leveling.
I'm still going to try the Flysky receiver and transmitter for the initial hover test.
Today I installed the GA250 and set the servo type to 1520us/333hZ (1 red)and set the delay to zero(1 blue).
I'm currently assembling the tail section and should have it installed tomorrow morning to test the tail servo direction for the gyro and complete the gyro setup.
My reasoning on this is to determine if I in fact have an issue with the Hausler or it's just me( lord I hope it's the Hausler )
Should I have the same issues as my trainer/crasher, I'm going to replace the receiver and transmitter to the Spektrum setup to determine again if it's me or perhaps the Flysky radio or transmitter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Electric Rc Helicopter Forum Index -> Electric RC Helicopters General Discussion All times are GMT + 7 Hours
Post new topic   Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Electric Rc Helicopter topic RSS feed 

SmartFeedSmartFeed




Electric-RC-Helicopter.com