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Wont lift. Pushes down???


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marks73
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Joined: 08 Apr 2015
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Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:54 pm
PostPost subject: Wont lift. Pushes down???
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I bought a Hausler 450 Pro with a Flysky CT6B Tx and of course the RTF was set up in mode 1 instead of 2 and took off wide open and crashed on power up. I found this web sight http://helihelp.rabbitsvc.com/Default.aspx. and rebuilt it.
Heli runs smooth. I put it on a 5 leg trainer that pivots in the center and all it wants to do is push down instead of up at full throttle. Main blades are turning CW and tail is turning CCW up into the wash looking at it from the right side. What in the world could I have wrong?
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Burgess
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:12 am
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Hello marks73 and welcome to the forum.

It sounds like normal Pitch Curve setting problem

NOR Pitch Curve:
EPO 50%
EP1 50%
EP2 65%
EP3 84%
EP4 100%

However, here's a two-part youtube.com tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaXLuSrvc5Y


Burgess
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marks73
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Joined: 08 Apr 2015
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Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:35 pm
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That was the video I originally set up on. Channel 1 is reversed and all swash afr set at +100. On throttle up servos 1 and 2 go up and the elevator moves down.
However, when I set it up using the rabbitsvc.com I ended up reversing channels 1 and 2 and all my swash afr's to -100 so the servos 1,2 and the elevator move up and down together . As far as a pitch curve. I'm set at
50
50
67
82
100
On both

Is it possible using rabbitsvc my negative and positive pitch is backwards? I'm at -11.2 at full throttle using rabbitsvc set up.
So which set up is right?
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Burgess
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:33 pm
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OK marks73,
Yeah you've got some settings wrong, when the throttle stick goes up, the swashplate should go up too, however, there is more to setting up.
Here's another series of videos on setting up a T-rex450SEV2 with a T6 transmitter like yours, get past the puppet... watch from setup#7

http://mikeysrc.com/Low-Cost-450-Heli.html

Have a look at those videos and I'll get back to you.

This may be very frustrating, however, bear with me. I can't get the link for rabbitsvc.com to work, so don't know what is shows and if the one I suggested wasn't any help, then for reasons of you having changed transmitter Mode from ‘1' to ‘2', and rebuilt your heli, it would be best to start at the beginning of the setting-up procedure.

Question: Is the main rotor head assembly balanced?
Test: remove main blades and lower Jesus bolt from the under the autorotation gear, so the rotor head is free to spin.
Make a test rig or position and secure the heli frame so the main shaft is horizontal.
The main rotor assembly should spin without constantly stopping in the same position. If there is a bias, investigate. Any out of balance will cause vibrations and or resonance.

Do you have a Swashplate levelling tool?

Burgess
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marks73
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Location: Leland, NC. USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:44 pm
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Really appreciate the help. Yes It's balanced and yes I have all the tools I need. Since the initial major crash because of the mode 1 deal I've yet to be able to fly it. That's why I started at the beginning rebuilding it.
I've found that you really need to do a lot of research to rebuild one properly and these 2 conflicting set up sources have me scratching my head. Rolling Eyes
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marks73
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:45 pm
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Now Mikey has me totally confused. He doesn't agree with the first 2 as far as leveling the servo horns and swash plate with the throttle in the middle. He does it all the way down.
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Burgess
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:01 am
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OK marks73, there's something they're not presenting in a way that the penney drops for you.

Hold on I'm writing a how-to for you and I'll post in a short while.



Burgess
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Burgess
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:06 am
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OK marks73

Download this Align T-rex450 pro manual, the main frame may be different to the Hauler, however, it has lots info you'll find useful:
http://www.rc-bargains.co.uk/download/Manuals/450PRO.pdf

For reasons of changing flight mode from 1 to 2, I would suggest you go right through the full setting up procedure for the servos and the swashplate -all good practice.

Safety: disconnect two of the leads between the ESC and motor -these things can really bite hard, even the little tail rotor.

Settings for channels 1, 2, & 6:
Trims (transmitter front) to centre
Sub Trims to 0
End Points to 100%

Dual Rates (DR) 100/100%
**************************EDIT********************
Switch (A) NOR/ID
Switch (B) Thro Cut
Sorry got this the wrong way round, should be

Switch (A) Thro Cut
Switch (B) NOR/ID


**************************************************
VR knobs
Set the VR pitch to centre position

Pitch Curves, you need a linier progression for setting-up.
Set
Idle Up
00%
25%
50%
75%
100%
Set
Normal
50%
62%
75%
87%
100%

Remove the main rotor-head assembly from the top of the main shaft.


First check orientation of servo movements: move Collective Stick up and down all servo arms should point the way the Stick goes.

The setting-up of the servos and the swashplate must be done in Idle UP.

************************Edit *********************************
In Idle UP, (left switch forward) throttle hold off (right switch backwards)
************************************************************

Collective Stick (throttle stick) dead centre of travel, the servo arms must be dead-on perpendicular to the main shaft. If arms are way-off refit them to as close as possible, doesn't matter if pointing a little up or down.
Now adjust the Sub Trim to bring each arm in turn to dead-on 90 to the main shaft.

Drop on the swashplate levelling tool, check for contact of all three legs to swahplate arms. If large gap, adjust length of link rods, if less than one full turn is required, unscrew the ball-link, turn the eye so that the large side of the eye faces outward and refit the ball through the eye and pull the eye on from the rear of the ball.
(this is where turnbuckles come into their own). If slight, adjust via Cyclic Stick Trims, but not via Sub Trims.

Check for centring, move Collective stick up and back to centre then down and back to centre. In each instance the levelling tool legs and Swashplate arms should return to full contact.

Also with the Collective at 100% up, the top of the levelling tool must aline with the bottom of the drilling near the top of the main shaft.

With the swashplate at this top position check for level, if not level adjust the Top-Endpoint to bring the lower arms into contact with the tool legs.

Move Collective stick to the 100% down position and adjust the Bottom-Endpoints.
When level, disconnect the flight battery, refit the main rotor head assembly, without the main blades.

With the Collective stick at the lowest position, reconnect the flight battery.
With the flight mode switch in Idle UP, the swashplate should be at the bottom end of its strake. Move the flight mode switch to normal and the swashplate should move up to the mid position.

With the blade holders alining across the frame, looking at the heli from the lefthand side, when you move the Collective stick up, the leading side of the blade holder should go up.


Now check for Interaction
First in Idle Up mode:
First with the Flybar Paddle pointing to the left (advancing position)
and then pointing forward.
Gently steady the fly bar, while doing so move the Collective stick slowly through it full movement and observe the paddle which should remain horizontal, any deflection indicates interaction.

Do likewise in Normal flight mode paying close attention to deflections when the Collective stick goes up through the mid-stick position, the paddle should remain horizontal with no deflections, this will result in smooth a lift-off and steady hover.

Refer to that Align manual to check the pitch angle to Collective stick positions.

It might be advantageous to set Idle Up throttle curve the same as the normal for now, and prevent you powering the heli into the ground.



Burgess


Last edited by Burgess on Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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marks73
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:58 am
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Wow! First thing tomorrow I'll start all over. When you say "Idle Up" your referring to the throttle cut switch. Correct? I watched 7-13 of Mikes videos all good info just had me a bit confused on the throttle setting for leveling the swash (I noticed he doesn't remove the head and use a leveling tool). Thanks again for taking the time to write this all out. Let you know how it works out.
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Burgess
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:32 am
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Switches
For reasons of the transmitter originally being set-up in Mode two, check the mapping for these switches via the T6CONFIG program.

Throttle Cut is via switch (SW-A) on the right hand side of the transmitter.
OFF....push backwards
ON.... pull forwards

Idle Up is via switch (SW-B) on the left hand side of the transmitter.
Normal flight mode....push backwards
Idle Up...............pull forwards


There is more to do after the basic electro-mechanical setting up. Wink


Burgess
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marks73
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:37 pm
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All my switches are correct. I think the problem lies in the reversing of channels 1 and 2 vs just channel 1 and the swash afr settings being +100 vs -100.
Using the 2 videos for set up, when leveling the swash the elevator was going down while the aileron and pitch were going up. In rabbits set up, The blade pitch is negative at full throttle in mode 2 and pos at zero throttle. I think that's why I'm not getting lift.
I'm getting ready to set it up from scratch using your response above and releveling the swash plate. Thanks again for your help to a new pilot who knows nothing.

Mark
-------------------------------edit----------------------------------------
In the reverse tab, all are normal except channel 6 which got the servos all moving together. Leveled the swash plate. However, the top of my Align 450 leveling tool is 3/8" from the bottom of my jesus hole at full collective. I verified the the bottom bolt is through the shaft as the bottom of the shaft is flush with the bottom of the tail shaft drive gear. I then removed the shaft and verified the length against my spare shaft. Reinstalled and verified level at full travel again.
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Burgess
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:25 am
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That 3/8" gap between the top of your Align levelling tool and the bottom of the top drilling in the main shaft may be due to the apparent shortness of the Align 450 Swashplate Leveller H45191, at least it looks shorter than the one I use (see photo for size).



Any way, see the photos of a 450 main rotor assembly in my setting-rig. Note the one-piece A and B links only the long pitch links to adjust:





The flat ply plate to aline the blade holders and the ply bridge to aline the flybar control cage, I place the levelling tool inverted up under the swashplate to maintain it at 90 degree to the main shaft.

Note how the swashplate, Washout mixing arms, and SF mixing arms on the flybar Seesaw are all 90 degrees across the main shaft.

That's how the main rotor head assembly should look when in Idle-Up flight mode, with the collective stick at the mid-stick position ‘0' Zero degrees;
and how it should look when in Normal flight mode with the collective sick at bottom stick position.



Burgess
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marks73
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:35 pm
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Here is where I started this morning with the swash plate level in all travel points.


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Burgess
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:30 am
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Thanks for posting the photos of your heli, and it's a clone of the Align T-rex450SEV2, rather than the T-rex450 Pro, so this manual will be better.
http://www.heliguy.com/media/download/Trex450SE-V2Manual_ebook.pdf

In the photos, it looks as though the flybar is bowed up at either end. If the deflections are not equal, then the flybar weights will not rotate in the same plane of rotation and that will create slight vibrations and adverse effects to cyclic control...but see how it goes.



Burgess
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marks73
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:02 pm
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I found the issue! While getting ready to set up the blade pitch. I discovered that the head assembly I bought on ebay had the blade grips on the feathering shaft backwards. This was what was producing the negative pitch.
Lesson learned. Never assume a part is assembled correctly and just install it on your heli.
After swapping the blade grips I was able to enjoy about an hour of hover training. Had a great time.
Thanks for all your help and you are correct in that it was excellent training in setting up and leveling a fly bar system.
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