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Improving Walkera 4#3B Stability


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AndyW
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:59 am
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I've been in the RC hobby for 45 years and was weaned on the DuBro Whirlybird. Then the DuBro Hughes 500, the GMP Competitor and lately, the last tne years, the LiteMachines heli.

Been away from rotary flight for a few years and got back in with those amazing PiccoZ machines. Despite only throttle and tail control, they are amazingly stable.

So when the 4#3B came along, I assumed we'd have about the same, only a bit bigger and with more control.

Well, that didn't happen. The 4#3B is the squirreliest heli I've ever tried to fly. I know how to make sure a heli is set up properly and did correct a slight mis-alingment in the swashplate.

But no matter what, as you lift off, the machine scoots off willy nilly in random directions. It's not the radio or batteries. This thing is an extreme challenge to fly.

At first I thought that it might be the fact that it's so small. That can be the case with fixed wing. But no, the PiccoZ's superb stability with minimum control puts the lie to that notion.

So what's the difference between the two? Other than the fact that the 4#3B has full controls, I notice that the flybar of the PiccoZ is not set up 90 degrees to the rotor. In fact, it's about 20 degrees, just ahead of each blade.

And just now, I had a look at the SRB Quark and it too has the flybar aligned like the PiccoZ. Could this be the solution to the 4#3B's stability problem?
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timwag
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:31 am
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i agree with you after reading your post i went and looked at the 2chs my stepson has and they are as you noted, only problem is unless someone makes a redesigned rotor assembly we`ll never know, ive seen kits that add weight and length to the stabilizer but i just dont like making things work harder than they have to, i guess a few grams isnt the end of the world. ill be trying it in the next few weeks. ill let ya`ll know
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muzrik2gr
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:45 pm
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Do you think that maybe the flybar could be bent to get 20 degree offset on the 4#3b just like the pico?I dont know how else you'd do it with the machined metal head... If I knew wich way to bend it, I'd try it. Is that 20 degrees forward of the LE of the main blades, or aft of the mains TE ?
I just received the deluxe new flybar weight set(with the anodized red weights) from MIA, along with new tuff landing struts and training legs. I hope this makes a difference, because I, like AndyW, find this thing way too touchy and uncontrollable. The MCX is just a toy compared to this little Tasmanian Devil! Twisted Evil
I'll let ya'll know if this aftermarket add-on works.
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timwag
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:20 pm
PostPost subject: nooooooooooooooo
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dont bend anything!!!!! the rotor head is all about balance bending by hand will get you close at best and buying more parts try the mia up grade ive heard alots of good feed back an am interested in yours. i hope i dont seem like a tool but i dont want to see you really mess that heli up good luck
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timwag
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:22 pm
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im in the same boat its hard to fly but ive been told that once mastered il be able to fly any thing
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muzrik2gr
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:04 pm
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Yeah Tim, I'm just gonna try the flybar upgrade first. I have a hard time believing they would have went to all the trouble to design and machine the head at an flaw/disadvantage in areodynamics. Maybe tomorrow we'll see...btw MIA is out of the ping pong ball traing gears for this one. I ended up with the long legged insect version!
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Dumb Thumbs
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:08 am
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Sounds like this could be a thread about the Blade CP Pro. If you just buy this, add this, fly only when there is a full moon... It'll fly great Laughing
Been down that long road myself with a CPP and looking back I wish I had spent a little more $ to start off with a T-Rex 450 insted of throwing more $$ and time into a "overrated toy".
I wish you luck in your endeavor to get her flying right.
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muzrik2gr
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:06 am
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10-4 on the "over rated toy"lol
I added the flybar weight mod today along with the tuff strut landing gear mod, today, both from MIA. I got a near-hover off the coffee table; seems more stable, but pulls to the left no matter what with all the trim on right. I tried to install the training gear, but one of the pins on the connector board for it snapped off before I got it installed. Inconsistent sizes of the four pins caused this. I guess I need to contact Mario about that.. The connector board is a CF laminated board thats laser cut with 4 pins cut into the corners and the 4 legs plug into it under the battery carrier. May end up using 2 small dowels to make this connection, and the legs are strapped to the main gear with rubber O-rings.

This certainly has been a challenge to get this thing flying, but I love challenges. Just doesn't seem normal. It's like mounting a running Cox .049 engine onto a baseball! Don't know which way its gonna curve!lol\\

BTW.. does anyone know how the little plastic disc are supposed to be installed on the rotor head/ blade holers? I see no holes in the middle for the blade screws to go thru...
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AndyW
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:30 am
PostPost subject: Re: nooooooooooooooo
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timwag wrote:
dont bend anything!!!!! the rotor head is all about balance bending by hand will get you close at best and buying more parts try the mia up grade ive heard alots of good feed back an am interested in yours. i hope i dont seem like a tool but i dont want to see you really mess that heli up good luck


I agree. I don't think that would do the trick. I have a lathe and I'm going to see if it can be done as time permits.

This little machine may be toy like but it has everything but collective and that has nothing to do with stability, I think. I have a LiteMachines heli that's fixed pitch and it's rock solid in the hover.

But try this and it might give a clue as to what the problem is. Grip the tail boom lightly and apply full throttle. Then pull back on the stick, You'll find that the machine will pull back, but also want to roll to the right. Forward stick produces roll forces to the left. It appears that the offset flybar compensates for this. Just an idea, I'll get back to all if I have any luck with the mods.
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timwag
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:42 am
PostPost subject: ROTOR HEAD
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i went to mia, and in videos mario has made the head mods that we are questioning, and feels they are too detailed for a hobbyist .it didnt look that bad but as im a machinist thats my opinion its does look really ruff for a layman. also he says tha he had some part cnc machinced no big if you have the equip. idk just adding my 2 bits
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timwag
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:45 am
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i like to put estes rocket motors on mine (baseballs) kid kid =) just got my rotors in and cant wait charging as i type im interested in the lathe experiment also i used to program/design for a living so im in to help not working right now so i got time
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timwag
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:26 am
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so went to garage for more room to dial this thing in, got better, then today thought its nice out no snow in the drive, im doing it .... welll it went great got about a battery of fly time then i downed it in like idk an inch of snow and then had no control it took off beyond full blast. had to chase it down and un plug it thankfully without taking any fingers off,hoping my eletronics are ok an i assume ill be able to rreadjust the head which is fubar including the guide for the plate ahhh expoy what would i do without you . but the increased space was key once i had room to dial in i could get into very small spaces and tight moves np, i dont think its an indoor toy without heavy flite time.
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muzrik2gr
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:08 am
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Thats great news! Glad you're getting her dialed in.Too windy here to even fly the CX2, but sounds like the right idea! I've about got mine about dialed in from launching it off of a mic stand ,with a platform on it, in the living room. Was hand launching it before that, and made better progress than ROG. Still a bit squirelly, but at least it flys now!
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timwag
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:01 am
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i spent some time ponder are situationt waiting for the glue to set, and it dawned on me it pulls to 9 on the control, and no amount of trimming helped so i tweeked the servo so it has more trim and ta da im very happy with the results still ruff to fly in the basement but in garage np, ill probly be out for the wkend its my youngest girls 13th b-day so no flying well we`ll see she loves this kinda stuff too
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bem
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:06 pm
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Hi,

I have bent the landing gear on 4#3B so the helicopter tilts to the right while on ground. It helps some with the tendency for the helicopter to go left at take off.

If You need a simulator to train on 4#3B and 4G3 there is a PRE-Flight Walkera Edition http://www.preflightsim.com/mainde.html
It has both these helicopters as model in the simulator. Check this page for supported transmitters: http://www.preflightsim.com/PFMOREI.htm

/Bo
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