Register | Log in
 
Electric-RC-Helicopter.com's Homepage
AlbumAlbum  | FAQ | Search | Memberlist
 

Tarot 450 FBL build issues


Custom Search
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Electric Rc Helicopter Forum Index -> Product Discussion Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Advertisements


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
matelot
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 331
Location: Back in Blighty

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:10 pm
PostPost subject: Tarot 450 FBL build issues
Reply with quote

.
Hi, guys,

Getting on with the build but already a couple of hiccups - a machine screw (M2 x 8mm) through a tail blade grip into the tail rotor hub was sheared on arrival - no wonder it flopped about! And the bottom CF plate is missing. OOmodel are sending out another plate. And there's no M2 nuts for the back of the servo arm balls. Balls...

Anyway, to the point in hand. Servo installation. Been watching Finless Bob's vids. Although he's working on an Align 450 FB, he sets up the two front servos (ail and aux) outside the machine. Centred, sub-trimmed and arms on. Then he installs them in the frame. This is done because it's easier (access issues in the frame.)

To do this he sets up a new model in the DX6i and sets swash to CCPM120. Fine. But I'll be using a ZYX gyro programmer for the 3-axis gyro, which means that the tx should be set to swash normal. My problem is that I'm obviously nowhere near programming the gyro (looks damned complicated anyway.) Laughing

So, should I set swash to 120 and go the Bob route? What will happen to the servo settings when I go back to swash normal when trying to use the gyro programmer?

Anybody had this mix?

Cheers

Oh, and I managed to straighten and stiffen the torque tube... don't ask. Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:30 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Hi matelot,

Regarding the swashplate:

1 servo 90 degree
3 servo 120 degree

These refers to how the swashplate will respond to TX control inputs.
In the 1 servo 90 degree setting each of the servos will respond individually, and this is useful to confirm the servo connections to the receive.

In mode two, when you move the right stick left and right only the Aileron servo will respond; move the stick up and down and only the Elevator servo will respond; and move left stick throttle up down and only the Pitch servo will respond. Knowing this helps when setting the end points for those servos.

So now having identified the function of the front two servos you can select the 3 servo 120 degree swashplate setting.

Now when you move the throttle stick up all three servos should move in unison moving the swashplate upward and your in CCPM response.
Now you can set up the swashplate and keep in the 3 servo 120 degree setting from there on.

Down load an Align 450 Pro FBL pdf manual, their great for setting up data.

Hope this helps


Burgess


Last edited by Burgess on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
admiral
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 1101
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:34 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Matelot,

I have two FBL and they have both been converted from FB and both fly well, I would suggest that you set them up using the RX the same as you would for a FB machine for the swash plate an then introduce the XYZ gyro.

I have a friend that tried the XYZ and had a lot of problems programing it, he gave up & bought a spektrum AR7200BX, but they are expensive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matelot
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 331
Location: Back in Blighty

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:04 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

.
Thank you for that, guys. I read what you said in conjunction with another Finless video, and it's a lot clearer now. Cheers.

But how's this: the link balls for the servo horns don't seem quite right. The threaded portion to go through the horn is 3mm long and no more. Given that the horn itself is 1.7mm thick, that leaves next to nothing on which to fasten a nut (not that any were supplied - another omission.)

Is that about normal, or should I get some link balls with a separate threaded insert a bit longer?

All good fun. Laughing

Cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:59 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Are you using the two part link-ball and screw or one piece hex socketed link-balls like the set Align do?

Anyway, drill a tapping size hole 1.5mm in the horn and use the screw to cut a thread into the horn and use M2 half nuts as lock nuts 'Cool'

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M2-Stainless-Steel-Half-Nuts-Lock-Nuts-Pack-20-Free-P-P-/150721806982#ht_1156wt_648

Or M2 full nuts from here
http://www.boltmeup.com/index.asp?function=SEARCH

If you use an Align one piece link-ball set ‘stainless steel' they're thread is 0.5mm longer.

http://www.align-trex.co.uk/linkage-ball-set-hs1285-p-191.html
Linkage ball A(M2x2.5) x 6(F4.75x7.18mm)
Linkage ball A(M2x3.5) x 9(F4.75x8.18mm)
Linkage ball E(M2x3.5) x 1(F4.75x6.3mm)
Long linkage ball (M2x3) x 1(F4.75x14mm)

Burgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matelot
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 331
Location: Back in Blighty

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:28 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Thanks for the links. Just what I wanted. Tried the Align site earlier, but it was down.

Supplied balls were one piece hex, so if the half nuts will grab just over 1mm (plus using threadlock), that'll do.

If not, I'll go for the set with the longer threads. New horns ordered anyway because I managed to split the ends... Laughing

Cheers again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matelot
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 331
Location: Back in Blighty

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:09 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

More questions, guys, if you don't mind:

The motor is slung under an aluminium mounting plate, and the two machine screws go in from the top and into the plastic dome of the motor. They nip up quite firmly. Is it advisable to put some CA on the threads in any event, or will the bite of the plastic suffice?

The tail servo came with four little grommets and four tiny tubular inserts - look like some form of damping spacers to me, but nothing in the installation diags. Ignore?

Cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:51 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Matelot,

The grip of the plastic ought to be OK.
Used thin internal serrated washers rather than CA.

Fit the grommets and inserts.

Burgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matelot
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 331
Location: Back in Blighty

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:16 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

.
Thanks. I just twigged the grommets - they fit IN the lugs, not under, so now all secure on the rear tray.

Cheers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:46 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Yeah, cunning little blighters, did you fit the brass inserts from underneath or in through the top?

Which make and model of servos have you fitted?
and which motor did you choose?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matelot
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 331
Location: Back in Blighty

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:10 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

.
I went in through the top then the mushroom heads act like a washer (no grommets in the diags.) Although why the tail servo needs damping, but not the swash servos, perhaps someone could explain to this noob.

As it was a kit, it came with 3 x Henge MD933s, and a Tarot GS-T9257 (all digital). And the motor is the stock Tarot 450M 3800KV brushless.

In due course if/when things fail, I may have more experience Shocked to look at different replacements, but it seemed sensible to stick with what was on offer in the kit at the time, particularly in view of favourable comments.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matelot
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 331
Location: Back in Blighty

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:31 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

.
The M2 x 8s arrived this morning, so that's the tail rotor hub and linkages finally assembled, on to the boom, and the boom lightly secured into the fuselage. I'm going to do a Finless as a matter of course and put a tiny self-tapper through the boom housing and into the boom.

The diagram for the blade holder to hub showed an M2 x 8. That's what I put in new, and all ticketty boo. I remeasured the head and stub I extracted, and that would equate to an M2 x 6 - so there's a 2mm bit of bolt kicking around somewhere (or it's in the Chinese factory...) Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:10 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Its not that the tail servos need dampers as such, it's that on servos designed to use grommets, the diameter of fixing holes in the lugs are too large for screw and flat washer only mounting. It is easier to fit the grommets and brass inserts and tighten them down, than finding or making solid spacers to insert in their place to stop the servo moving under load. 'Wink'

The tail servos on my three 450s and one 450 hybrid Walkera 36 all have four grommets, brass inserts, and an additional sleeve in the brass insert removes slop there. With all four M2s tightened down there is zero movement of the servo in the grommets. 'Cool'


Burgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
matelot
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 331
Location: Back in Blighty

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:03 pm
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Burgess wrote:
...The grip of the plastic ought to be OK...
Burgess

The motor was bothering me. If the motor mount is a heat sink, how could the dome be plastic? Felt like it, and the tapped holes were black all the way through. I scraped a little of the black colouring off the dome, and it's come up nice and shiny. Must be aluminium.

Couldn't find any description of the motor construction materials, and really didn't want a motor loosening in flight. Shocked

So now I'll threadlock them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgess
Extreme 3D
Extreme 3D


Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 1085
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:07 am
PostPost subject:
Reply with quote

Hang on Matelot,

What I said was,
Burgess wrote:
The grip of the plastic ought to be OK.
Used thin internal serrated washers rather than CA...


My reply focused on your apparent concerns regarding vibrations. 'Wink'

The key point I made with that in mind was, "Use thin internal serrated washers rather than CA." 'Cool'

The reason being, the need to make fine adjustments to the motor position during set-up.

However, if the main gear runs concentric, then by all means use thread-lock if that gives you peace of mind.

And don't take your own advice in your foot note "tighten it up till it breaks, then back it off a quarter turn!" 'Laughing'




Burgess
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Electric Rc Helicopter Forum Index -> Product Discussion All times are GMT + 7 Hours
Post new topic   Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Electric Rc Helicopter topic RSS feed 

SmartFeedSmartFeed




Electric-RC-Helicopter.com